Wednesday a young pastor entered my office to discuss a variety of issues related to ministry and church planting. He had been ordained within a large protestant denomination but had left that denomination in favor of an unaffiliated status. I asked him how he like being disconnected from a denomination. He responded, “The worst part about it is that now I feel so disconnected.”
During the post-sermon mingle time at a non-denominational church where I preached this past Sunday, one of the members said he would love for me to come back again and preach, then went on, his face beaming, to state, with gusto and pride¾“Notice that we don’t have any kind of denominational stuff on the sign out front. We are just Christians!”
Denominational loyalty is at a very low ebb. There seems to be no reason to expect a trend in the direction of denominational revival anytime soon. Why is this so?
Have you considered bolting your own denomination? Why?
Have you already left a denomination? For another one? Or are you now worshiping and serving within a denominationally unaffiliated congregation? How’s it going?
13 responses so far ↓
Jesse // Oct 8, 2008 at 8:37 am
I went from Non-denominational to the SBC and there are some definite perks, as well as some draw backs. I think the Holy Spirit is going to direct you where He wants you to be and where you can be made most useful to want God wants done.
If the Gospel is being preached, a focus on bringing people to Christ and discipleship taught in the classrooms, then does it really matter what the sign says? If you feel better saying I’m a Presbyterian, Methodist or a Southern Baptist or nothing at all, then OK.
I personally enjoy being affiliated with a larger organization, they have resources, people and usually money that may not be available to those Lone Rangers.
I think it comes down to the doctrine of the group(s) that are the most important. Review the doctrine and then how they apply that doctrine, that’s the true test to see if they are either worth the time and effort or are heretics.
Dr. Mark DeVine // Oct 8, 2008 at 12:15 pm
But is there any biblical/theological rational for prefering an affiliated or disaffiliated Christian existence? Are we dealing with something that is purely a matter of personal preference? Have we any help from the Bible or Christian tradition that might suggest where we should expect the Spirit to lead? I wonder.
Rick // Oct 8, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Much of this may be “personal preference” (music style, pastor’s ability to communicate, etc…), but much of this seems to also be a focus on the “essentials” (depending on how one describes essentials).
Evangelical leaning Baptist, Methodist, or Presb USA have more in common with each other than they do with their liberal counterparts. In a mobile society, and beyond the comfort elements, people are focused more on the core issues of the church. They are not as concerned with the fine print issues (in fact, churches do not generally ask for a full sign-off on all the doctrinal positions of the church or denomination when it comes to official membership).
With all that in mind, many evangelical churches, both denominational and non-denomination churches meet that criteria, so it is easy for like-minded people to plug into one.
Mike // Oct 8, 2008 at 5:55 pm
I am currently a doctoral student in biblical interpretation at a highly diverse university. The spirit here is an ecumenical one, but I can say that I see quite a bit of denominational loyalty. One of my Catholic friends, for instance, has numerous issues with the Catholic church, but has decided to stay in it, even if it calls that he “breaks some of the rules,” as it were. Methodist classmates are also highly loyal, and I could go on and on. I am a conservative evangelical, more specificially a Southern Baptist, and although I’ve considered looking elsewhere, leaving the denomination has never really been a serious consideration for me. I have issues with the way SBC churches deify their pastors (at least in the south, where I’m from), let declining churches rot into the ground, condemn things the Bible doesn’t even condemn (like alcohol - we should condemn drunkenness, not alcohol), and other things as well. Still, I don’t feel the need to leave over these issues . . . rather, I feel I must stay to help us (the SBC) keep the right focus, especially our heart for evangelism and our dedication to missions. So, I suppose I am an example of someone who is sold out for the SBC, in good times and in bad. But make no mistake, I consider myself a follower of Christ, a Christian, before I consider myself a Baptist. But, I feel loyalty for the SBC in my very person, and a desire to help her keep her way on the Lord’s path, Lord willing.
Eric // Oct 8, 2008 at 7:37 pm
I believe people in general are joining churches due to personal preference rather than denominational loyalty, at least this is what I observe in the congregation where I currently serve. Very few, if any, of those who have joined the church have stated their desire to join based upon the name on the sign out front. Most are joining because of worship style, preaching, likeminded relationships, missional emphases, et. al. I am not sure if denominational loyalty should be the front door to church attendance or membership. I agree it needs to play a role, but how big of a role I am not sure?
Andrew // Oct 8, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Frankly, the SBC and churches in the SBC have been completely uninterested in anything I have to offer outside of seminary, so I see no reason to stay in the fold, besides the mailbox full of unsolicited garbage paid for by the tithes of generous Christians….
Lee // Oct 9, 2008 at 9:15 am
I think the New Testament demonstrates the value of inter-church connectedness. The Macedonian church helping the Jerusalem church revealed in II Cor.8 and the resolution of some doctrinal issues in Acts 15 are two examples that come to mind. Connections like that do not just magically happen but assume some kind of structure that ties them together. Denominations seem to have provided that but with a lot of additional baggage over which some chafe. But to be unaffiliated with a denomination does not absolve local churches from their responsibilities to be connected with other churches in some other way.
Peter Rust // Oct 9, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Mark,
The brethren movement (J.N. Darby, William Kelly, etc) were strongly anti-denominational and have their biblical/logical arguments. What’s funny is that, regardless of what they wanted and though they were not officially incorporated or anything, they basically became a denomination because they were so different from the other churches around them and so closely tied to a few strong teachers in the movement.
In a similar way, many modern churches (at least on the west coast, especially those that have their heads above the sand and have an idea of what’s going on nationally) tend to cluster around a particular teacher (a “John MacArthur” church or a “John Piper” church — meaning heavily influenced by a particular teacher or ministry). The elders all go to MacArthur’s Shepherd’s conference, etc — or a “Willow Creek” church or “Purpose Driven” church, where the leadership attends conferences, reads material or even rebroadcasts conferences from a national-level teaching church.
These churches often have no official affiliation and there’s nothing in their sign to show the connection. You have to dig a little deeper and ask some probing questions before the church’s distinctive flavor comes out — they don’t wear it on their sleeve like they used to.
Personally, my hunch is that this is a good thing, emphasizing the unity of Christians, the autonomy and authority of the elders of a local body, while at the same time benefitting (through conferences, teaching, etc) from national-level leadership in informal and sometimes formal-but-loose relationships to a national-level teaching church.
Todd Pruitt // Oct 13, 2008 at 11:28 am
Mark,
I am in the midst of leaving a Southern Baptist Church in Wichita, Kansas to become Sr. Teaching Pastor at Church of the Savior (non-denom) outside Philadelphia.
I support denominationalism. I think it is generally a helpful tool particularly if it operates as a denomination. The SBC in which I was raised is not truly a denomination. It is a confederation of autonomous churches that cooperate in mission’s funding. They are also expected to embrace the Baptist Faith and Message. My problem with the SBC is that I think it ought to be a bit more denominational. As it is, if you go to a Southern Baptist Church you will have little idea of what you will encounter.
I am looking forward to the transition but not because I am bitter about the SBC. I was not looking to leave my denomination. It just happened that way. Although, as someone who is reformed in my theology I found it a bit frustrating to have some of the most influential leaders in the SBC consistantly distort my theology.
P.S.
Kris McGee, Kevin Cawley’s partner in Redeemer Fellowship K.C., was the youth pastor at my church in Wichita. He is very thankful for the way you “shepherded” the church before their transition.
Dr. Mark DeVine // Oct 13, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Todd. Great to hear from you.
Kevin and Chris are doing a great job at Redeemer Fellowship.
Thanks for your comments.
Jesse Barnhart // Oct 17, 2008 at 8:39 pm
The N.T. sure seems to paint of picture of affiliated churches. I sometimes think, as Todd pointed out, that it would be good if SBC churches were a little more “denominational” when it comes to what they believe or practice. I used to think (a lonnngggg time ago) that if I picked any SBC church to attend I could be sure of sound doctrine and practices; no longer.
I am still uncomfortable with the whole “non-denominational” idea unless a church is also very clear in laying out what they believe and practice.
Dr. DeVine, it is good to hear from you again. Hope things are going well for you.
Rick Crampton // Oct 30, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Lately I have been contemplating the possibility of pastoring outside of the SBC. It seems that I have more in common with Bible churches. Southern Baptist claim to be people of the Book but it seems most are in love with “popular preaching.” If your not a dispensationalist you will get fired in many of our churches.! If you believe and practice Biblical eldership there are few places where you can serve.
I have been looking for a church to pastor near my wive’s aging parents in Western Kentucky. Her mom is chronically ill. It’s been nearly impossible because of some of the reasons I just mentioned.
Having said all that I love the way we do missions. I think the Cooperative program is the best thing we Southern Baptist do.
I miss seminary Dr. Devine. I even miss you! You know who I miss the most? Dr. Tomlinson! Tell him I said hello and that I’m working hard to be an exegete not a theolog.
Will Hapeman // Dec 13, 2008 at 9:43 am
I value the fellowship I share with men I love in our little corner of the SBC. We look non-denominational to the world as up here in the north nobody knows the symbol [cross, world,Word] in the building. the name had to change. Baptist= legalist in my area. Baptist =teatotaler, Baptist = unloving, Baptist = judgmental. We are now Dayspring Bible Chapel,
chapel as many people in the region were raised to avoid “other” churches, but will come into a chapel for prayer. We will do as God guides with affiliation. I am SBC due to the Faith and Message. Pick one, I can live with them all.
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